{"id":153441,"date":"2025-06-05T17:40:05","date_gmt":"2025-06-05T15:40:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.apartamentomagazine.com\/?p=153441"},"modified":"2025-06-16T16:31:24","modified_gmt":"2025-06-16T14:31:24","slug":"interview-with-joana-avillez-for-apartamento-magazine","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.apartamentomagazine.com\/stories\/interview-with-joana-avillez-for-apartamento-magazine\/","title":{"rendered":"A conversation with Joana Avillez"},"content":{"rendered":" \t\t
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\n\t\t\t\tTo access this post, you must purchase Apartamento Membership<\/a><\/span>.\t\t <\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"\n
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\n\t\t\t\tTo access this post, you must purchase Apartamento Membership<\/a><\/span>.\t\t <\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n","protected":false},"author":7,"featured_media":159651,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[30],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-153441","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interview","authors-robbie-whitehead","text_author-robbie-whitehead","photo_author-heather-sten","membership-content","access-restricted"],"acf":{"link_archive":false,"archive_story":null,"archive_bg":"#F5F4EE","archive_title_color":"#000000","cover_bg":"#f5f4ee","cover_title_color":"#f5f4ee","body_bg":"#f5f4ee","body_text_color":"#000000","body_captions_color":"#666666","related_bg":"#ffffff","related_text_color":"#000000","stories_bg":"#EDECEC","alternative_image":"","hover_image":"","credits":"","title_format":"center","font_size":"medium","image_format":"cover","hero_image_mobile":"","video":"","video_excerpt":"","video_format":"regular","content":[{"acf_fc_layout":"two_blocks","block_sizes":"half_40_60","content_type_left":"credits","image_size_left":"regular","image_left":143538,"video_left_url":"","video_caption_left":"","video_left_type":false,"text_left":"","credit_image":158639,"credit_link_left":{"title":"Click here to order your copy! ","url":"https:\/\/www.apartamentomagazine.com\/product\/roman-recipes-for-modern-cooks\/","target":""},"content_type_right":"text","image_size_right":"regular","image_right":null,"video_right_url":"","video_caption_right":"","video_right_type":false,"text_right":"New York City: I\u2019ve never actually asked Joana Avillez, the author of this simple line drawing<\/a>, to confirm that it actually is<\/i> me. There I am in the back, I think, at 101 Spring Street, the once-upon-a-time home of the late Donald Judd. Just a few people to my right is his daughter, Rainer Judd; of that, I\u2019m sure. She\u2019s in the middle of balancing three mandarins on her head. Centre-stage, it looks like we have Ricky Clifton, international figure of interior design mystery, showing off a cocktail umbrella to a distinguished duo. But I could be wrong. After ten years of having this treasured illustration framed on my wall, I\u2019m hesitant to ask. Let\u2019s just say it\u2019s me.\r\nI first emailed Joana in 2016, when we were working on a fresh, illustrated approach to Apartamento\u2019s front section. We had begun to think it had slightly lost its way, and decided to look to illustration to liven things up. Hence the email\u2014which, like all old emails, is funny to look back on now. Despite its cringe-worthyness, it worked: Later that year, we published Pie in the Window, Nine Stories by Joana Avillez <\/i>in issue #17. And so, a relationship was born\u2014and, as is the case for so many Apartamento contributors, a single, out-of-the-blue email from Barcelona morphs into a virtual friendship, and, if you\u2019re lucky, as one project leads to another, you may just get to meet that person on the other side IRL! That\u2019s exactly what happened with Joana and her line drawing, which was a spontaneous documentation of the Apartamento magazine issue #16 launch in New York\u2014one she GAVE TO ME as a memento.\r\nFast forward to the summer of 2023: the latest iteration of our on-going collaboration was put on pause and then started again in January 2024. This time, for real. The following months involved countless Zooms\u2014my colleague, Andrea Servert, and I on the Barcelona side, hopping on at 4pm, and Joana on the New York side, joining us at 10am, after having dropped her son Nino off at school. <\/strong>The beautiful, JA-illustrated book that emerged from this process, after many creative twists and turns, was Roman Recipes for Modern Cooks, <\/i>authored by Sally Grainger, a Somerset-based scholar, food historian, and YouTuber Nacho had discovered a few years earlier.\r\nWorking with Joana has always been a dream. I love her line. Secretly, I\u2019m super jealous because I\u2019d love to be able to draw like her, to share her creative spirit and playfulness and imagination. I\u2019ve told her more than once that working with her is like working with the Ferrari of illustrators. On a lesser scale, I\u2019m kind of into what I consider to be her Carrie Bradshaw-esque New York life. One breakthrough moment while working on the book was discovering our shared love for Antoine de Saint-Exup\u00e9ry\u2019s 1943 children\u2019s classic, The Little Prince<\/i>. It\u2019s a magical book, and it\u2019s no exaggeration to say that Joana and Antoine are kindred spirits. My pocket-sized Spanish edition, a special gift from a friend of mine, has this inscribed on its opening page: \u2018For Rob Rob, nothing matters really much, but this does\u2019. For this interview I called Joana, again over Zoom, to reminisce a little, to hear more about her parents, her links to the Eternal City, and what she reads to her son at bedtime. <\/strong>"},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[158525]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"Can you draw when you\u2019re sad?","answer":"I\u2019ve thought about this a lot since you first asked. Wait, ask me again.<\/span>"},{"question":"Joana, can you draw when you\u2019re sad?","answer":"Yes. You have to.<\/span>"},{"question":"Because it\u2019s your job.","answer":"Well, yeah, because it\u2019s my job, but also\u2014God, am I going to have to sound really profound now? Who am I? I guess it depends on what part of you is sad. If you\u2019re dry-heaving crying, then it\u2019s hard. But if it\u2019s that bubbling-under-the-surface, latent-but-accessible sadness, then yes, you can draw. You <\/span>have<\/span><\/i> to. Deadlines will make you forget you\u2019re sad, anyway!<\/span>"},{"question":"How do you do the thing you have to do when you don\u2019t feel like doing the thing you have to do?","answer":"I feel very in touch with who I was when I was nine. What I do now is basically what I loved doing as a kid, but through some process of elimination, I managed to make it my everyday life. <\/span>That\u2019s what\u2019s great about illustration. I think for artists there\u2019s a different kind of pressure\u2014at least from my point of view\u2014that it has to be brilliant. But when you have very humble materials and when you're working on a really small scale and you basically have no overhead and you need no space, the bar is pretty low. So I think the path to get there is really easy. There\u2019s no huge buy-in like needing this rare thing, or needing a huge studio, or needing incredible light. I can work with anything. The real challenge is getting to that place in my mind or in my head where I am able to be really present. I need to be alone. <\/span>I once joined a studio of illustrators, but I could almost hear all their thoughts\u2014I found it very distracting. Plus I spent too much time chatting. I really need to be alone\u2014alone with myself.\r\nI have certain things that I say to myself if I don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m getting to that point. If I\u2019m making something, I want it to be something I\u2019d like if I saw it out in the world. I always remind myself: It should be fun to make. That sounds obvious, but it\u2019s hard to get\u2014You have to find your way back to that point of wanting to do it."}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[158510,158508,158506,158494,158493,158489,158486]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"You\u2019re looking for the approval of your nine-year-old self.","answer":"Totally. I\u2019ve had this very crumpled Post-it stuck to my computer since forever that just says, \u2018Keep it simple\u2019."},{"question":"I read something recently about how easy it is to make things complicated\u2014","answer":"Yes.<\/span>"},{"question":"\u2014and how hard it is to make them simple.","answer":"There\u2019s this Stravinsky quote\u2014I\u2019ve also got it on a Post-it\u2014something about the more confinements you impose, the more you free yourself. You have to get down to where you're in a corner with so many limitations that these are your only options and then you can do the most, with just a pen and paper. It\u2019s already pretty reduced, I think.<\/span>"},{"question":"Is the line itself something you\u2019re drawn to?","answer":"Yes.<\/span>"},{"question":"You know what I mean?","answer":"Yes. I\u2019m not a cut-out shape person, but then even in that, there\u2019s a line.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"full","gallery":[159650]},{"acf_fc_layout":"two_blocks","block_sizes":"half_50_50","content_type_left":"image","image_size_left":"regular","image_left":159647,"video_left_url":"","video_caption_left":"","video_left_type":false,"text_left":"","credit_image":null,"credit_link_left":null,"content_type_right":"image","image_size_right":"regular","image_right":158453,"video_right_url":"","video_caption_right":"","video_right_type":false,"text_right":""},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"Do you draw casually?","answer":"Actually people keep asking me... We were in LA because we went to this wedding and someone was like, \u2018Oh, but like when do you do your own work?\u2019 I felt almost embarrassed. I was like, \u2018But it is my work\u2019. I definitely draw when it\u2019s not for work. I do a lot of drawing to amuse Nino, which is definitely how I started drawing because my dad was an incredible draftsman, an amazing drawer, and we would draw all through dinner all the time. I don\u2019t mean to be like, \u2018Much better than me!!!\u2019, that\u2019s easy, but he really was an incredible drawer. But I think of drawing as really tied to writing, especially the projects I\u2019m working on that are my own. The next one I\u2019m working on now is about drawing and writing instruments and I want the stories to be told from the perspective of the tool, or a story about a certain pen being told in <\/span>that <\/span><\/i>pen. For example, I want to go to a pen convention.<\/span>"},{"question":"Is there such a thing as a pen convention?","answer":"Oh, yes. Many. Serious pen collectors, like fountain pen enthusiasts. I think it\u2019s obviously interesting because\u2014<\/span>"},{"question":"Pens are great?","answer":"Pens are great, and we all use our phones and, Inshallah, Nino will know how to write by hand. I feel like I draw all the time. I feel like everything is drawing... Did I answer the question?<\/span>"},{"question":"This whole, \u2018But what do you do for yourself? What\u2019s your<\/i> work?\u2019 thing makes me think that the question I should be asking is, \u2018What do you draw when there\u2019s no client around?\u2019","answer":"Often I draw funny people that I see on the street\u2014I like to draw people that I notice the most. And I always have a little book with me, but even if it\u2019s for a client, it\u2019s all completely me doing it. So it has to be totally me. I like to make small books\u2014accordion books, weird and funny-shaped books\u2014for Nino when I\u2019m not doing illustration stuff. He was very into bats for a while so I made him a bat-shaped book: It has a bat head I made out of clay which I also painted, and the covers are the wings. The accordion book is about trams in Lisbon, and it\u2019s one continuous, very long illustration. The reverse is tram tracks, which he used with his toys.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[159545,159544,159543,159540,159541,159542]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[159549,159546,159548,159553,159547,159556,159551,159555,159600,159599,159598,159597,159596,159595]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"It\u2019s like, \u2018What do you mean? I do my work all the time\u2019.","answer":"It\u2019s that distinction between illustration versus being an artist\u2014It can\u2019t only be for you<\/em> if it\u2019s going to be for someone else\u2019s story. There\u2019s a Helmut Newton book called <\/span>A Gun for Hire<\/span><\/i>\u00a0<\/span>and I love that because it\u2019s like, you gotta just go do the job. I like the practicality of that. But I think the drawings I do for myself are usually with writing and they\u2019re more like stories.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[158502]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"Tell me about Nino\u2019s drawings.","answer":"Oh my God, there\u2019s nothing to say. He doesn\u2019t make a single drawing. That's unfair\u2014He can write his name, which is so cool. But he\u2019s not that into drawing, and I almost think it\u2019s because he sees me doing it all the time, perched in my little perch, and I think he associates it with me not being available to him. I don\u2019t know. A friend of mine was like, \u2018Oh, my son didn\u2019t draw anything until he was four. Then he turned four and then he started drawing\u2019. I hope that he\u2019ll be into drawing. He does like to tell me what to draw. It\u2019s very Spider-Man related. Wait, let me show you. As you can see he wanted web wings and he wanted things shooting out of the sun.<\/span>"},{"question":"Oh, so this is a Nino-directed drawing.","answer":"Yeah. He\u2019s telling me what to do. But he\u2019s not that into it, but that\u2019s fine too. I was really into it with my dad. I was thinking that must\u2019ve been really fun for him.<\/span>"},{"question":"Tell me more about your dad.","answer":"He did illustration. He went to art school in Lisbon, where he is from, but then his life took a turn when he was drafted into the army. In the '60s, he was drafted, became a lieutenant, and served in the colonial wars in Guinea-Bissau. It was really fucking bad, I mean, it changed his life. Now, when I think about it, he was only 24 or 25. I wouldn\u2019t say it ruined his life, but he never fully recovered from it. I remember asking him when I was little, \u2018How often do you think about that?\u2019 Without missing a beat, he would say, \u2018All the time\u2019.\r\n<\/span>After he got out, he wanted to finish art school, but Lisbon was different then\u2014not the trendy digital-nomad-avocado-toast-hub it is today. It had been under fascism, under Salazar, and I think he just didn\u2019t want to be in Portugal anymore. So, he either planned to go to London and finish art school there or New York. He got into Cooper Union and he came to New York and lived in a loft with a bunch of other Portuguese guys. Portugal is so small that any artist you meet will know that crew of guys who came from Lisbon to New York. One of his best friends, Olga\u2014who\u2019s also Portuguese\u2014told me she came to New York with just my dad\u2019s phone number on a piece of paper. They became best friends. Anyway, he was here, doing illustration for the New York Times <\/i>and various books. I find illustration fulfilling and freeing, but for him, I think, it was more of a means to an end. He had other ideas."},{"question":"Do you know the Thunderbirds<\/i>?","answer":"No."},{"question":"You didn't watch the Thunderbirds<\/i>?","answer":"No."},{"question":"Well, that\u2019s not going to make any sense then. It was this \u201860s puppet-animated show. I have this really clear memory of my dad drawing the green spaceship that they had. I was floored by his drawing. Just like, 'How could someone do that?' My dad\u2019s not an artist, it probably wasn\u2019t that<\/i> great a drawing. But in the moment I was like, \u2018Whoa, I want to be able to do that\u2019.","answer":"I love that! I also have a memory of my dad drawing this chiquita banana, like a Carmen Miranda type banana. He did this book about politics in South America called <\/span>The Abject, America<\/span><\/i>, and it was on the cover, and I would ask him to draw that over and over again. That\u2019s my origin story.<\/span>"},{"question":"What\u2019s your least favourite thing to draw?","answer":"I just thought of 10 things. I guess it depends what it\u2019s for. I think I\u2019ve figured out how to avoid drawing my least favourite things. No one\u2019s going to really hire me to draw planes. Machinery, planes, cars\u2014those are my least favorite things to draw. I\u2019m just not very good at it. I think it all depends on what the tone of something is. I would do something for that subject matter if it was on the more human side of it\u2014I don\u2019t even know how to drive.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"full","gallery":[158518]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"Does anyone in New York know how to drive?","answer":"I also hate to draw really dumb fashion things. Oh, sometimes maps are annoying.<\/span>"},{"question":"I have to say\u2014maps, they\u2019re kind of annoying.","answer":"A map to not a real place is better than a real map.<\/span>"},{"question":"Although you did do a nice map\u2014actually, a very nice map\u2014for our book. It shows the extent of the Roman Empire in 117 AD.","answer":"Oh, yeah. I had to really think about it. That kind of map is more than just a street level map. I also did a map for the<\/span> Joseph Mitchell book I\u2019ve been working on. I did a compass in that. I\u2019ve drawn a lot of compasses recently. Compasses are very cool.<\/span>"},{"question":"I read an article about compasses last night.","answer":"Me too! In the LRB<\/em>?<\/span>"},{"question":"Yes!","answer":"I was like, \u2018Oh, this is perfect\u2019. \u2018I\u2019m like <\/span>so<\/span><\/i> into compasses\u2019.<\/span>"},{"question":"I was hooked. I couldn\u2019t believe it. I like the old maps when people only had an inkling of where things were\u2014they\u2019re the cool maps, it just went downhill from there. Why bother now? We know too much.","answer":"Totally. And just that all the directions are completely made up. Except for the mercurial underlayer of the earth, which... Speaking of, how does anyone figure anything out?<\/span>"},{"question":"It was about a year ago when we first started talking about Sally\u2019s book, right?","answer":"Oh no, more! I remember when you emailed me. I went to Portugal by myself with Nino because Sean, my husband, was taking the bar, and I wanted him to only take it once. I wanted him to pass. So I was like, \u2018I\u2019m going to go away for two weeks, and you\u2019re going to be alone\u2019. I think that was the summer before this one.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[158484]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"In my mind, I have you in Rome when we first spoke about the project. It was hot, so it must have been summer. You were getting gelato for Nino, and he was sick.","answer":"Oh, yes, he was. That was a really traumatic European trip. We were staying in a friend\u2019s empty old apartment in Rome, which was great. But Nino was sick, so that trip was basically me stuck in that apartment with no Wi-Fi. It was so hot.<\/span>"},{"question":"I was recently thinking of the cover of our book. How I was on a boat\u2014for a different project\u2014on the Amalfi Coast of all places, when you sent over the cover illustration. We\u2019d had the conversation about a green background, but as soon as it came through and I saw it, I thought, \u2018That\u2019s it\u2019.","answer":"I\u2019m so impressed with you. I was saying this to Sean, or my mom, or someone\u2014how I feel like you can imagine what I could do in your head. If I show you a shitty little drawing, I don\u2019t literally mean this shitty drawing, but that I\u2019ll do something in that direction. I feel like you can imagine what that something will be like. It\u2019s like being in this shared secret brain. Like being in the cloud. It\u2019s really rare and really amazing.<\/span>"},{"question":"I loved seeing your sketches and immediately thinking, \u2018Yes\u2019\u2014even before the final Joana Avillez signature touch was there. When I saw the cover in colour, I just thought, \u2018It\u2019s perfect\u2019. I was on this random boat, thinking, \u2018We\u2019re good\u2019. Then I was back at the hotel, literally at three in the morning, sending it to the printer.","answer":"Oh, I know. I was like, \u2018What about the proof?\u2019 And you said, \u2018What proof?\u2019<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[159505,159512,159504,159507,159506,159508,159509,159511]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"When we began the project, I had no idea you had such a connection with Rome. It\u2019s kind of fitting. Could you tell me more about it?","answer":"Yes, I remember going when I was\u2014actually, maybe I\u2019ll send you a photo of this drawing. It\u2019s the best drawing I\u2019ve ever done. I think I was seven or eight. My mom had a show in Rome at this little gallery, and I did this drawing of the opening with all the people there. It\u2019s the best drawing I\u2019ll ever do.\r\nI remember going to Rome then, but I went back later when I was 18 or 19 for RISD, the art school I attended. They have a palazzo there\u2014Palazzo Cenci\u2014which is the sickest thing ever. If you Google Beatrice Cenci, you\u2019ll find a painting of her turning her head, wearing a turban. That was her house\u2014her whole palazzo. She totally haunted it; people used to see her in the mirrors. She was beheaded after killing her father, who had raped her repeatedly. Icon! Anyway, I went with my best friend for their summer programme, where we just lived in Trastevere, had studios, and then went on a huge trip all over Italy. It was so fun. I remember going from there to Lisbon afterward to see my family. The last time I\u2019d been there, I was 17 with long hair, and then, after my summer in Rome, I had cut off all my hair and gained ten pounds eating pasta and drinking wine. My uncle was like, \u2018What happened to you?\u2019 That\u2019s a terrible anecdote. It was a really magical summer in Rome. It\u2019s also kind of how I met Sean."}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[159694]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[158529]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"full","gallery":[158498]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"As far as I remember, when I first met you, there was no Sean. That would have been sometime around 2015.","answer":"No, there was no Sean then. He was probably living in Berlin or something. I feel like, if you\u2019re from a romantic place like Rome, then at some point you have to move to Berlin to counter it. Sean met all these friends of mine from RISD, and they then lived together in Rome after 2009, 2010. I met Sean through those friends later at a wedding in California. And the rest is history.\r\n<\/span>Oh, also\u2014we eloped in Rome! Sean is from Rome. He grew up in Rome, despite his name being Sean. His mom is American. And so that\u2019s why his name is Sean."},{"question":"Not despite his mum being American?","answer":"I mean <\/span>despite<\/span><\/i> being Roman, his name is Sean, and it\u2019s very funny being in Rome because of the way people pronounce Sean.<\/span>"},{"question":"Not a Roman name.","answer":"Last time we were there, we got an Uber, and I remember the driver came out and he was like, \u2018See-an?\u2019 Anyway, his parents separated when he was 10 and he and his sister moved to LA where his mom is from. I think that was an intense shift, having grown up around church bells, to all of a sudden being trapped on highways. The only thing to do was to turn to skateboarding, which is what he did. But yeah, his family\u2019s from ancient Rome.<\/span>"},{"question":"Like Roman<\/i> Romans.","answer":"Like Sean has SPQR tattooed on his ass cheek.<\/span>"},{"question":"As I assume most of them do. I went to Rome for the first time last year.","answer":"Isn\u2019t it jaw dropping? Oh, here comes Nino. Maybe I\u2019ll go in the stairwell\u2014there\u2019s nowhere to hide in here.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[158485]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"I was going to ask you if you could tell me a bit about the house you live in. Did you grow up\u2014","answer":"I did not grow up here, but my dad got this loft in, I think, 1992. I grew up in a loft in the fish market, in the seaport, which my dad had lived in for a while before I was born. It was a very undesirable, smelly neighborhood, but if you wanted a huge, rambling, low-ceilinged loft with wooden beams for $200 a month, you could get that. And he lived there with Sylv\u00e8re Lotringer, who founded Semiotext(e).<\/span>"},{"question":"Really?","answer":"He lived there with Sylv\u00e8re, and then my mom got pregnant and then Sylv\u00e8re was kicked out, and she moved in. I get it now\u2014having a child and wanting to have your own space. So I think when I was about five, my dad got this place. He ran this arts and culture magazine from here. It was called <\/span>Lusitania<\/span><\/i>.<\/span>"},{"question":"Tell me about your mum.\r\n<\/b>","answer":"There\u2019s too much to say. Her name is Gwenn Thomas, which has now become very funny because one of the new Spider-Man characters is called Ghost-Spider, and her real name is Gwen. So Nino says that I\u2019m Princess Ghost-Spider sometimes, but then he also calls me Gwen, which is very, very funny. My mom is a huge part of my life. She is an artist, a true artist, with a background in photography and sculpture. We can talk about our work together and understand it totally, and it\u2019s extremely valuable.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"full","gallery":[158451]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[158462,158466,158463,158461,158460,158467,159648,159646]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"Seeing those photographs of you reading to Nino made me want to ask what your parents read to you when you were little.","answer":"My mom read to me. We read a lot of Beatrix Potter books. Later, I read some biographies of her and I found out she was truly wild. I think if she were a teenager today, I feel like she would be really into anime, totally goth, and she\u2019d be so punk. Her life was basically just animals and drawing. She had a pet bat! She also kept a diary and invented her own secret alphabet so no one could read it. Because of the time she didn\u2019t go to school after a certain age, unlike her brother, and was basically just shut up in her house. Must have been miserable. She did fall in love later with her publisher, who made a glass-sided dollhouse that she could keep mice in, to draw from for her book <\/span>The Tale of Two Bad Mice<\/span><\/i>. My dad read a lot of William Steig with me.<\/span>"},{"question":"I don\u2019t know William Steig.\r\n<\/b>","answer":"S-T-E-I-G. He was a favourite when I was growing up\u2014God, Sean keeps texting me. I\u2019m like, \u2018Aren\u2019t you in court???\u2019 Also, wait, I think I can find it. Here it is. I remember my dad showing me this book when I was little, <\/span>Max and Moritz<\/span><\/i>\u2014a German comic he used to read when he was a kid. I remember being very taken with it. Look at this\u2014This copy belonged to my great-grandmother in Portugal, Maria Joana. She had a German Fr\u00e4ulein, and the inscription says, \u2018Maria Joana, something, 1922\u2019. It\u2019s about two naughty boys who get into all sorts of shenanigans, but there's one page where they get baked into this bread and it\u2019s basically like an LSD trip.<\/span>"},{"question":"Wow.","answer":"Isn\u2019t that amazing? They literally get baked in there. Anyway, I remember my dad showing me that and being really impressed by it\u2014Oh my God, Sean just wrote to me, \u2018Did you see the Spider-Man <\/span>Apartamento<\/span><\/i> cover?\u2019 Yeah, old news dude!<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[159516,159517,159518,159519,159520]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[158532,158531]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"Are those tiles in the kitchen from Portugal?","answer":"Yes.<\/span>"},{"question":"I could tell.","answer":"My dad put those in, and I think we\u2019d like to make the kitchen a bedroom because loft life is a struggle, but the kitchen is such a nice room it\u2019s hard. Living with so much of his stuff, my grandma\u2019s stuff, it\u2019s like the stuff of people who are not alive and then all the crap of a three-year-old\u2014I felt like maybe there was something more to say about it, but maybe not.<\/span>"},{"question":"What about your grounding in New York\u2014obviously you\u2019re very New York grounded, right?","answer":"Yeah. Well, I mean, I <\/span>am<\/span><\/i> very New York grounded, but I do feel I need to leave, but maybe it doesn\u2019t have to be permanent. But I have dreams of getting out of here. Of <\/span>not <\/span><\/i>making it in the big city! Or this city.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"full","gallery":[158514]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"So what about this layout? What do you think of Heather\u2019s photos?","answer":"I love them. I don't like that one of me with the white poofs, but\u2014<\/span>"},{"question":"Which one\u2019s that?","answer":"I\u2019m not going to be like that.<\/span>"},{"question":"You can. You mean the photo with you in the shirt thing?","answer":"The one of me in the doorway.<\/span>"},{"question":"Ah. I quite like it, but if you don\u2019t like it, we can get rid of it.","answer":"Well, I\u2019ll ask Sean what he thinks.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[159649]}],"related_text":"","issue":"","button_text":""},"yoast_head":"\nA conversation with illustrator Joana Avillez<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"An interview with Joana Avillez, illustrator of Roman Recipes for Modern Cooks, authored by English food historian Sally Grainger.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.apartamentomagazine.com\/stories\/interview-with-joana-avillez-for-apartamento-magazine\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_GB\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"A conversation with illustrator Joana Avillez\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"An 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