{"id":152100,"date":"2025-05-07T03:00:56","date_gmt":"2025-05-07T01:00:56","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.apartamentomagazine.com\/?p=152100"},"modified":"2025-06-25T15:52:54","modified_gmt":"2025-06-25T13:52:54","slug":"a-conversation-with-cynthia-shanmugalingam","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.apartamentomagazine.com\/stories\/a-conversation-with-cynthia-shanmugalingam\/","title":{"rendered":"A Conversation with <\/br>Cynthia Shanmugalingam"},"content":{"rendered":" \t\t
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\n\t\t\t\tTo access this post, you must purchase Apartamento Membership<\/a><\/span>.\t\t <\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"\n
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\n\t\t\t\tTo access this post, you must purchase Apartamento Membership<\/a><\/span>.\t\t <\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n","protected":false},"author":16795,"featured_media":150918,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[30],"tags":[472,474,75],"class_list":["post-152100","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interview","tag-food-wine","tag-design","tag-art","text_author-zoe-suen","photo_author-dasza-wasiak","membership-content","access-restricted"],"acf":{"link_archive":false,"archive_story":null,"archive_bg":"#F5F4EE","archive_title_color":"#3a45ae","cover_bg":"#F5F4EE","cover_title_color":"#ffffff","body_bg":"#f5f4ee","body_text_color":"#3a45ae","body_captions_color":"#000000","related_bg":"#ffffff","related_text_color":"#000000","stories_bg":"#EDECEC","alternative_image":"","hover_image":"","credits":"Cynthia Shanmugalingamv","title_format":"center","font_size":"medium","image_format":"cover","hero_image_mobile":"","video":"","video_excerpt":"","video_format":"regular","content":[{"acf_fc_layout":"two_blocks","block_sizes":"half_40_60","content_type_left":"credits","image_size_left":"regular","image_left":"","video_left_url":"","video_caption_left":"","video_left_type":false,"text_left":"","credit_image":138560,"credit_link_left":{"title":"Apartamento Cookbook #9","url":"https:\/\/www.apartamentomagazine.com\/product\/apartamento-cookbook-9\/","target":""},"content_type_right":"text","image_size_right":"regular","image_right":130749,"video_right_url":"","video_caption_right":"","video_right_type":false,"text_right":"Restaurateur, cook, and author Cynthia Shanmugalingam greets me at her front door, which opens to one of Borough Market\u2019s only slightly more tucked away thoroughfares. Her home sits atop one of the city\u2019s best-loved food shops, which she admits is both a blessing and a problem, emphasis on the former.<\/strong>\r\n\r\nLiving in one of the city\u2019s largest and oldest food markets certainly has its perks, especially when your restaurant is around the corner. Shanmugalingam, whose Sri Lankan restaurant, Rambutan, sits a minute\u2019s walk away, likens her life to the scene in Beauty and the Beast<\/i> where the book-loving protagonist, Belle, waltzes through her local market, greeting vendors left and right.\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>\r\n\r\n\u2018My step count\u2019s gone down to like 10\u2019, she laughs. \u2018I didn\u2019t think this would happen to me in my 40s, where I live in central and do this, it\u2019s a surprising change\u2019.\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>\r\n\r\nThe fairytale set-up is the work of Borough Market itself, which operates as a charitable trust to hold property and preserve the area as a community hub. Traders get right of first refusal for flats in the vicinity; Shanmugalingam moved in before Rambutan opened in March 2023, and when building delays hit, her home became her team\u2019s de facto HQ and the site of a pre-opening boot camp of sorts. \u2018We ended up developing the menu in my kitchen, and all the dishes were finalised here. We couldn\u2019t have built the restaurant otherwise\u2019.\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>\r\n\r\nWhile she\u2019s certainly had her hands full with the restaurant and her celebrated book of the same name, Shanmugalingam and her husband, Joe, also haven\u2019t had to make many changes to their light-flooded home, which circles its rooms around a white stairwell. We enjoy the bulk of our conversation in the carpeted living room, framed by colourful sofas and a bookshelf populated by cookbooks, though she zips in and out to show me her kitchen (appropriately kitted out with top-of-the-range Gaggenau cooking equipment) and well-labelled pantry, which contains the ancient grains she\u2019s brought back from Sri Lanka (including her current obsession: millet).\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>"},{"acf_fc_layout":"two_blocks","block_sizes":"half_50_50","content_type_left":"image","image_size_left":"regular","image_left":150925,"video_left_url":"","video_caption_left":"","video_left_type":false,"text_left":"","credit_image":null,"credit_link_left":null,"content_type_right":"image","image_size_right":"regular","image_right":150923,"video_right_url":"","video_caption_right":"","video_right_type":false,"text_right":""},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"full","gallery":[150948]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"

Do you have a favourite corner of your home?<\/span><\/span><\/strong><\/p>","answer":"The kitchen is my favourite place in the flat, and sitting at the window overlooking the terrace when the sun<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s going down in the summer is really lovely. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s surprisingly peaceful: The market is loud, and there are deliveries at all hours\u2014dairy deliveries come at 2 or 3<\/span>am<\/span>, and the pub finishes quite late. But that spot feels like a little oasis. We<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve got a tiny<\/span>,<\/span> little <\/span>Sri Lankan barbecue<\/span> outside, which I cook on in the summer. Sometimes me and my husband just have dinner in the kitchen, looking out, with the window open.<\/span>"},{"question":"It looks like the perfect coffee spot. Are you a breakfast person, and did you have any this morning?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"I didn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t have breakfast this morning, but yes. I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m trying to cut down on gluten and bread because I don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t get on with it that well, but I love having egg fried rice in the morning. I make it with broccoli and black bean<\/span>s<\/span> and whatever I have in the fridge, that<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s my favourite thing to start the day with.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"

I totally understand\u2014I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m from Hong Kong<\/span>,<\/span> and we have very blurred lines between breakfast foods and other foods. It sounds like you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re a creature of habit.<\/span><\/span><\/strong><\/p>","answer":"I feel like I am, yeah. Some things I like to do the same all the time, but I also like spontaneity. If you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re a cook setting up a restaurant, you want to always do new things. But it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s also lovely to have a sense of home, something you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re returning to.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"Are there specific routines that keep you sane?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"A walk by the river, I try to do it every<\/span> day. When I moved here<\/span>,<\/span> I was like, <\/span>\u2018<\/span>T<\/span>here<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s no parks or outdoor <\/span>spaces<\/span>\u2019<\/span>. <\/span>I used to live near Victoria Park in east London, and that really kept me sane But the river curiously has a similar property. You can see a long way without buildings in the way. And I try to swim two or three times a week, I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m not very good and only swim for 20, 30 minutes at a time, but that really helps.<\/span> It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s maybe the one thing I do that my phone can<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t be a part of, and I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m completely switched off. I even have a shower speaker so I can listen to podcasts in the shower.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve always wanted to get one of those.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"Yeah! But it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s important to have some time when you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re not putting anything into your mind.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[150942]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"Do you listen to things when you cook?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"I love to. I really like <\/span><\/span>Talk Easy<\/em> <\/span>with<\/span> Sam Fragoso<\/span><\/em><\/span>, he does these long-form interviews with people; I like <\/span><\/span>Long Form<\/span><\/span><\/em>, a podcast for writers; I like <\/span><\/span>Soundtracking<\/em> <\/span>with<\/span> Edith Bowman<\/span><\/em><\/span>, she interviews directors<\/span>,<\/span> and lots of interviews about film don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t get to what<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s happening in the film and why they<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve made the choices they<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve made, and somehow the music is the way into it. I like this terrible<\/span>,<\/span> nerdy podcast called <\/span><\/span>Switched <\/span>O<\/span>n<\/span> Pop<\/span><\/span><\/em>, where these guys break down pop songs. They are very uncool, but they know lots about music. And have you heard of <\/span><\/span>Dissect<\/span><\/span><\/em>? They<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ll do eight episodes on one album, <\/span>and <\/span>he<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s done a Kendrick album and Beyonc\u00e9, breaking down all the references and samples and meanings. Especially for Kendrick, as it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s so layered.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"It\u2019s very meaty.<\/strong>","answer":"So meaty, so dense, and you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re blown away. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s like Shakespeare.<\/span>"},{"question":"I was about to say, like English class. Do you ever think about people also dissecting your dishes, and rationalising them?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve never thought about whether people see it in that way. The restaurant, maybe, as a whole\u2014I do think restaurants are similar to film projects because they<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re really stupid things to do with your money and insanely risky, and so many fail. And they have this addictive quality where people who love it can<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t not do it. But with dishes, I just think about what I would like to eat and what I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d like to make for someone else.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"What<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s that creative process like?<\/span><\/strong>","answer":"The throughline is where there<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a Sri Lankan resonance or a dish I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve had or know of, and I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ll think about how I can translate it to here, using the ingredients we have here, and what would make it the best version of it we can make\u2014in the pursuit of deliciousness and not anything else. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s quite hard to explain how you feel about food, you feel stupid trying to articulate it. But I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve been trying to unpack it with the team to help explain what dishes work and why some dishes don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t. I always think about the philosophy of the rural: <\/span>T<\/span>he restaurant is really based on rural Sri Lankan cooking in villages,<\/span> and<\/span> that<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s why we cook on fire and make our own spices.<\/span>"},{"question":"W<\/span>hen you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re cooking for guests at home or <\/span>for <\/span>yourself, do you cook similarly to how you cook in the restaurant?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"No, I feel people want that<\/span>,<\/span> and I slightly disappoint them. Now I cook the same few things all the time: chicken or fish curry, plain rice, a fresh <\/span>sambol<\/span>, and maybe dhal. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s what I grew up eating when you have half an hour to eat some food. I don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t have as much of a sense of wanting to make something complicated, which I used to have more; I think that<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s now in the restaurant, and I just eat to feed myself. When people come over, I love to cook other stuff, like Middle Eastern food or a risotto or Chinese.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"Well, you have so many ingredients out there, it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s like a playground.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"Exactly. And it feels like a holiday for my mind, not like <\/span>\u2018<\/span>Oh, this could work for the restaurant<\/span>\u2019<\/span>.<\/span> I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m free of that.<\/span>"},{"question":"Is there anything you don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t enjoy or refuse to eat?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"When I was little, I didn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t like seafood. I thought it looked like bugs, but my parents weren<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t having that, and I wasn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t allowed, really, to not eat anything. So, I ate it all, but didn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t like it until later. I don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t love celery and anise-y flavours like pastis<\/span>.<\/span> I find that flavour harder. I didn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t use to like coriander leaves<\/span>,<\/span> but now I do.<\/span><\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[151075]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"You submitted a fish sandwich for the latest Apartamento cookbook. Why that particular recipe?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"

It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a version of a fish finger sarnie, the classic British sandwich and a thing of beauty. But it has a Sri Lankan spin on it. My dad used to make the filling of what we called a fish cutlet\u2014it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s really easy, just tinned fish, boiled potatoes, and spices. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a fun thing to make the fish fingers yourself, and the mayo and <\/span>sambol<\/span> are so punchy and full of <\/span>flavour<\/span>. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a British-Sri Lankan hybrid, like me.<\/span><\/span><\/p>"},{"question":"

Was fish part of your seafood phobia?<\/span><\/span><\/strong><\/p>","answer":"Fish I was always <\/span>OK<\/span> with; it was more crustaceans.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"They have that pre-historic vibe.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"I feel like they were around with the dinosaurs with their little eyes. And it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s such a thing, where I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d go back to Sri Lanka on holiday, and they<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d make squid, prawns, crab curry, loads of them, and I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d be like<\/span>,<\/span> \u2018<\/span>O<\/span>h dear<\/span>\u2019<\/span>.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"Are any of the pieces in here from Sri Lanka?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"Not many, but there<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s <\/span>this box<\/span> we put the remote control on, here. We have photos from Sri Lanka, and a map of [Geoffrey Bawa<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s <\/span>Lunuganga<\/span> Estate] where we got married.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s gorgeous, I really want to go.<\/span><\/strong>","answer":"It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s crazy how beautiful it is. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s one of the first places me and Joe went to together. And I also have fabrics from Sri Lanka, which really bring a bit of joy to this grey landscape.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"Going back to the restaurant and cooking there and at home: It seems like you have a good sense of boundaries between the two, though you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re quite proximate. Do you prefer to keep work and life separate?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"There are definitely dishes I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ll try at home that are for the restaurant, and I like to have the chefs here, as it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s nice to step outside of the chaos. When I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m there, people are always asking questions<\/span>,<\/span> and you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re in different headspaces. So<\/span>,<\/span> I bring them here to have a few hours or a day to see what works. I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m more comfortable cooking here than in the restaurant; I always describe myself as a cook and not a chef. I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m comfortable cooking for eight people at home, but I don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t cook in the restaurant for guests. I don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t chop onions fast enough! But it is important to have a boundary, I do try and think of this space as a sanctuary.<\/span><\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"two_blocks","block_sizes":"half_50_50","content_type_left":"image","image_size_left":"regular","image_left":150959,"video_left_url":"","video_caption_left":"","video_left_type":false,"text_left":"","credit_image":null,"credit_link_left":null,"content_type_right":"image","image_size_right":"regular","image_right":150972,"video_right_url":"","video_caption_right":"","video_right_type":false,"text_right":""},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"

Do you think it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s possible as a chef to completely separate work and life? That fluidity seems so natural.<\/span><\/strong><\/p>","answer":"If you love food<\/span>,<\/span> you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re constantly thinking about it, like all the time. A mackerel sandwich in Istanbul with parsley and onion and lemon\u2014you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re thinking about whether you want to do a version of that, and it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s part of the joy. But it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s nice to not have to do that all the time, which is a freedom other cuisines can give you.<\/span>"},{"question":"

Where do you go for that escape?<\/span><\/span><\/strong><\/p>","answer":"English restaurants, like Mountain, or 40 Maltby Street, which is my favourite restaurant in London. The menu has a shape and is always familiar but inventive.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"I love 40 Maltby Street too, especially their fritters. To rewind a bit, when did cooking, or even working in food, first occur to you? When you were very young, was it a consideration?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"No, I never thought I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d do anything in food. I never thought I had something to offer, I just ate it. But my mum was always talking about food: <\/span>S<\/span>he<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d be like, <\/span>\u2018<\/span>D<\/span>id she put cumin in it? Someone put cream in that curry<\/span>\u2019<\/span>.<\/span> Her family, they were all food detectives. I did that as well, asking why something was good.<\/span>"},{"question":"That was just a part of eating for you.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"And everyone loves to eat, so I thought everyone did that. But I hated my office job and met this girl who worked for an American kitchen incubator, so I decided to try doing that in London. I didn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t know anything about food business, but I thought, how hard can it be? Turns out, very hard. But it came easily to me, and I decided to start cooking the food I felt represented me. That<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s how I started cooking Sri Lankan food, a version that didn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t really exist in restaurants here. There<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a disconnect between restaurants and the home, where<\/span>,<\/span> in the latter<\/span>,<\/span> mainly women do the cooking and in restaurants it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s all men. There<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a difference in how it feels, and I wanted to bring more of that home energy here.<\/span>"},{"question":"A hundred percent. A friend of mine is a chef, and she<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s always saying what a difference it makes when she cooks with a team of mostly women.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"I agree. I don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t know how it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s happened, but I feel we have one of the best gender balances of any kitchen in London. Our head chef and general manager are women, and I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m a woman, so maybe that<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s part of it, that people are attracted to work at Rambutan because of that. I think it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s important to have a mix of different people and energies, and that<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s what makes London such a magical place. I always say Rambutan is a London restaurant, and it couldn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t exist in Sri Lanka. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s part of this dialectic between London and Sri Lanka, it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s not air-lifted from Colombo and dropped here. I don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t want it to feel like that or have this <\/span>\u2018<\/span>Sri Lanka World<\/span>\u2019<\/span> feeling when you come into the restaurant<\/span>.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"That uncanny valley vibe.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"Exactly. I want people to feel like they<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re here, and it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s 202<\/span>5, <\/span>and there<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s that vitality.<\/span><\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[152101,152107,152104,152103,152105,152106,152102]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"I spy a copy of your cookbook. Did writing about food feel like a natural extension of cooking?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"I didn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t really want to write and didn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t think of myself as able. But when Covid hit, I had to pull out of the site I wanted in Shoreditch. I started to write a book about what I wanted to do in the restaurant. I had the time and could really think about what I wanted to say. There are some writers who write about their heritage, and it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s like a Merchant Ivory film with handed-down recipes from their mum or sitting on their grandma<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s knee while she kneaded chapatis, which is lovely and often true. But my relationship with my parents wasn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t like that at all. Also, people are always going to Sri Lanka and saying people were so smiley and friendly, but there was a genocide there<\/span>,<\/span> and it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s one of the most militarised places in the world. Sri Lankan people can be angry, and jealous, and dicks, and wonderful, like all of us. There<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s humanity there, and I wanted to write about real people and experiences, and this sense of me being there and not there and what it meant for the food. Because I decided to tell that story, the writing became easier.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"It sounds like the writing process really distilled what you took to the restaurant.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"It did, and it enabled me to take six months in Sri Lanka writing and being immersed in it. I hung with my parents most of that time and was in the zone.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"You brought up that clich\u00e9 of diasporic food writing with <\/span>an<\/span> emotional family connection. In the past, I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve also been pressured by editors to weave <\/span>it<\/span> into the story when it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s not always the case.<\/span><\/strong>","answer":"I never felt like that was the case for me. All the stories in the book are things that happened. One is about my cousin, who is a cop. He loved it, and he was extremely overweight; he had a triple bypass surgery and a stroke<\/span>,<\/span> and food was basically what killed him, but he was unrepentant about eating what the fuck he wanted to eat. When he woke up from his surgery<\/span>,<\/span> he asked for black wild boar curry, which is so fatty.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"Legend.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"He was like, you sorted the thing out, and I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m alive, so give it to me. No one was going to tell him no. That story doesn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t feel like a clich\u00e9, you know? I also wrote about how when you went to someone<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s house in Sri Lanka, it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d be so confusing to find; addresses are so weird there, it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s like 22 upon 10. What is 22 upon 10?<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"You have to do long division.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"The roads always change: <\/span>O<\/span>ne will get renamed<\/span>,<\/span> but people end up calling it a third name anyway<\/span>. Y<\/span>ou eventually find the house<\/span>,<\/span> and people run around to get ready. They ask you questions like, <\/span>\u2018<\/span>A<\/span>re you studying?<\/span>\u2019<\/span> I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m like, really too old for that. And they bring you little things on trays. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a feeling of being ignored and catered to at the same time.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"I love that chaos<\/span>;<\/span> it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s almost fantastical, like a mirage. You describe it in such a cinematic way.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s that sense of, does this really exist? Will we be able to find it again? I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m not sure. But those are the vignettes I wanted to give, to introduce people to characters from the mad play that is my family and my friends.<\/span><\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"two_blocks","block_sizes":"half_50_50","content_type_left":"image","image_size_left":"regular","image_left":150984,"video_left_url":"","video_caption_left":"","video_left_type":false,"text_left":"","credit_image":null,"credit_link_left":null,"content_type_right":"image","image_size_right":"regular","image_right":150985,"video_right_url":"","video_caption_right":"","video_right_type":false,"text_right":""},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"Have people with third-culture backgrounds approached you about how you captured a feeling they resonated with?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"

It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s one of the most moving things about doing the book; I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve heard from lots of people from all kinds of immigrant backgrounds. I didn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t think the book would carry as far, but it has this amazing reach. I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve had people come to the restaurant, and cry.<\/span><\/span><\/p>"},{"question":"

What<\/span> move<\/span>s<\/span> them to tears?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>","answer":"It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a story about curry leaves, and how my mum always insisted on cooking with them. It was the only non-negotiable for her. During the war and after the uprising, everyone was getting out, but my grandma was still in Sri Lanka, and my five-foot-tall mum filled our freezer with curries and went to get her. She managed to get her a visa, all while there were cousins living in the house along with three of us kids, and she<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d worked full time and went to night school and did all the housework on her own. There were only a few non-negotiables for her, and the curry leaves were one of them.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"Wow. Are they also non-negotiable for you, and do you tend to bring ingredients back?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"Yeah, they are, and I do always bring things back. Fruits are what I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d like to bring back, but they rarely survive.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"I was going to ask you about that, because we so rarely see rambutans in London.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"I called the restaurant Rambutan partly because it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a Javanese loan word: <\/span>T<\/span>here was once an ancient Javanese kingdom that spanned all the way up the continent, and there<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve been all these influences over the years. So <\/span>\u2018<\/span>rambutan<\/span>\u2019<\/span> is the same in all these different languages. But also, the fruit is never as good as you get it here; there<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a melancholy and sadness to the fact that you can<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t bring it back with you. You can<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t bring Sri Lanka back with you either.<\/span><\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[150947]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s your Sisyphean task<\/span> and captures that magical realism from your storytelling of conjuring up the thing. On the other hand, which ingredients do you use local alternatives for?<\/span><\/strong>","answer":"We try to fly in the minimum<\/span>,<\/span> so spices, rice, curry leaves, green chil<\/span>l<\/span>is. But all the vegetables, fish<\/span>,<\/span> and meat come from the UK and Europe. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s just trying to get the best thing you can get, and seasonality is not just for white people. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s the oldest way anyone has cooked in the world because we didn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t have fridges and preservation and GMO.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"W<\/span>e associate seasonality with such a specific kind of restaurant<\/span>, and <\/span>you often call yours an <\/span>\u2018<\/span>insider-outsider<\/span>\u2019<\/span> approach to food<\/span>. W<\/span>hat <\/span>have <\/span>you<\/span>\u00a0learnt from its reception<\/span>?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"

The book didn\u2019t get on any best-books-of-the-year lists in the UK, but it got on the LA Times<\/em> and New York Times<\/em> lists. I think America has more in the way of culture about being caught between worlds\u2014it\u2019s amazingly rich. People are much more aware and interested in it. But there are some people who are like, \u2018This is not what Sri Lankan food is\u2019. We\u2019ve had a dhal on the menu on and off, and I\u2019ve had people tell me that unless you have it on, it\u2019s not a Sri Lankan restaurant, because they\u2019d been on holiday there and ate it with everything. I\u2019m like, \u2018OK, the restaurant is open and serving people and not doing dhal, so it\u2019s technically possible to do a restaurant that doesn\u2019t do dhal\u2019.<\/p>"},{"question":"It exists!<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"

Yes, exactly. Some people feel attacked if what is familiar to them is not in the food or the restaurant. But some dishes are versions of home-cooked things, or things I\u2019ve made up as a version of something else. Our hot butter cuttlefish is battered, and we have fried squid with lemongrass and spring onions, and you have it at the beach or as a bar snack. We do it as a sandwich; it\u2019s not unrecognisable, I didn\u2019t put miso or anything in it. We have bread in Sri Lanka, so it wouldn\u2019t be impossible to do that there, but some people feel upset that it\u2019s not totally traditional.<\/p>"},{"question":"I guess that speaks to the more limited awareness people have of certain cuisines in other countries, and the contexts in which they exist. Was it daunting for you to lean into that diasporic perspective?<\/span><\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/strong>","answer":"Yeah, I was afraid. In London, there are a bunch of Indian restaurants in particular that are explicitly based on colonial clubs and institutions. They\u2019re named after things related to the army, and there\u2019s a sense of heavy-handed design. I didn\u2019t want to do anything of that\u2014anything based on a colonial idea of Sri Lanka. The period of design I\u2019m most interested in is the post-independence period, where a whole generation of architects like Geoffrey Bawa were figuring out their own idea of modernism and how it related to their own traditions. The restaurant was supposed to reference that. But I feel like you\u2019re allowed to do a restaurant without pictures on the walls if you\u2019re like, Lyles or St. John\u2014only certain kinds of restaurants are allowed.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"two_blocks","block_sizes":"half_50_50","content_type_left":"image","image_size_left":"regular","image_left":150958,"video_left_url":"","video_caption_left":"","video_left_type":false,"text_left":"","credit_image":null,"credit_link_left":null,"content_type_right":"image","image_size_right":"regular","image_right":153330,"video_right_url":"","video_caption_right":"","video_right_type":false,"text_right":""},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"People have an expectation, for sure.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"The expectation is that if you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re cooking <\/span>\u2018<\/span>ethnic<\/span>\u2019<\/span> food, for want of a better word, it should be more of a bonanza<\/span>, <\/span>or it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a drinking den.<\/span>"},{"question":"There are tropes.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"Yeah, such specific tropes. And I feel Rambutan doesn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t fit into them, which was nerve-wracking. I still feel anxious about it. I mean, the restaurant seems to be busy.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s still standing!<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"T<\/span>here<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s an audience of people who love it and understand it. But you have no idea really if it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ll resonate with anyone.<\/span>"},{"question":"What are your thoughts on the discourse around authenticity in restaurants?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"I think people should be allowed to cook everything\u2014it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s one of the great joys of living in a metropolis like London, you get exposure to cultures and cuisines and can fall in love with them. I grew up in Coventry<\/span>,<\/span> and my friends were Nigerian and Pakistani and Indian and English, and we all went to each other<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s houses and tried their mum<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s food. It was a gift, growing up somewhere with a rich immigrant culture. But what I care about is who gets to tell the story. When I pitched my book to publishers, I counted the number of Sri Lankan recipes in the <\/span><\/span>Guardian<\/span><\/span><\/em> and <\/span><\/span>Telegraph<\/span><\/span><\/em> and other newspapers over two years; there were <\/span>19,<\/span> and none of them were written by a Sri Lankan person. An Indian chef, an Israeli chef, some people who went on holiday there and came back\u2014that<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s totally great, but why <\/span>are<\/span> Sri Lankans not part of that conversation? Apparently, the best baguette in Paris is by a Sri Lankan Tamil guy, and I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m so happy that<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s the case. Why shouldn<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t they be able to make perfect patisserie? But<\/span>,<\/span> when it comes to Sri Lankan food<\/span>,<\/span> there should be some Sri Lankan voices representing our own culture and stories as well.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"So well put. I think people avoid talking about this<\/span>,<\/span> as <\/span>\u2018<\/span>authenticity<\/span>\u2019<\/span> can be so amorphous.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"

Totally. Diaspora communities often have this slightly fossilised idea of their own cuisine, and they feel protective of it because they are in some ways under attack or feel fragile where they\u2019ve settled down. Often, people in Sri Lanka are more relaxed, it\u2019s not as heavily laden with what\u2019s traditional or correct. My idea of authentic is we roast and make all our own spice mixes in the restaurant; we don\u2019t buy them powdered, and we don\u2019t have stale spices. We try and make things as old fashioned as possible. Someone else might be like, you don\u2019t have mutton rolls on the menu. But if you buy them frozen, or it\u2019s not the best version, is that authentic?<\/p>"},{"question":"You don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t want to do it for the sake of name-checking the item, and like you said before, deliciousness being<\/span>\u2014<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"The organising principle.<\/span><\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[150946]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"I love that. And I read that when you first dove into the food industry, you<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d ask established chefs what they<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d tell their younger selves. What would your advice be now?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d say, don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t be afraid to be a bitch, as decisions reside with you. In Sri Lanka, there is a sweet humility in the things someone might do for you: <\/span>A<\/span>s kids at our cousin<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s house, they<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d always sleep on the floor, and we<\/span>\u2019<\/span>d sleep on the bed. If you go to a bus stop in the morning, three of your uncles come with you with tea and biscuits for the journey, and people will walk three miles with you to show you the way to a place. They<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re small things, but there<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a feeling of warmth and generosity, and that is something you can try and distil and hire for. Now, I realise my vision of what I want Rambutan to be, that has to be the guide.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"You have to back yourself. Now we<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve touched on what makes London such a great restaurant city, but if you had to change something about the restaurant scene, what would it be?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"Honestly, I wish the critics were a wider pool of people more representative of London<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s food culture now. I just mean, maybe not the same five characters. It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s also gotten quite polarised: We<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ve had an amazing mushrooming of people who really represent small undiscovered places in pockets of London with big immigrant communities, but it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s either that or<\/span>\u2014<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"The old guard. You<\/span>\u2019<\/span>re either a <\/span>Vittles<\/span><\/em> reader or reading<\/span>\u2014<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"Giles Coren, yes, and there<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s little in between and overlap between those two customer bases. I do feel like food media in the broadsheet newspapers in the UK, it feels dated to me. The person who picked my book to be in the <\/span><\/span>New York Times<\/span><\/span><\/em> list was Yewande <\/span>Komolafe<\/span>, the Nigerian chef and writer for the <\/span><\/span>Times<\/span><\/span><\/em>, and I don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t know if that person exists at any of the newspapers in London or the UK. Here, it feels more one-dimensional.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"And for young people, the state of media makes it hard to commit to that as a career; I guess the more lucrative option would be social media, which is its own beast.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"It<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s not the same thing. But people who review and rate us on social media, I love those guys; they have such interesting, different audiences.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"Is it overwhelming thinking about the social media food scene as a restaurant owner?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"I think social media itself is quite overwhelming. I try to switch it off, but now, you kind of can<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t. But there<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s also this amazing ability to look at things around the world: like people cooking on hot <\/span>pots<\/span> in KL in Malaysia. I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>ll wonder if we can do that, do a version of it in the restaurant. I<\/span>\u2019<\/span>m sure in the end, it leads to<\/span>,<\/span> not homogenisation<\/span>,<\/span> but too much borrowing from different cultures, but I find it an amazing resource as well.<\/span><\/span>"},{"question":"Speaking of food content, are there any fictional meals in books or film you wish you could eat?<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"Have you seen <\/span>The Scent of Green Papaya<\/span><\/i>? It\u2019s beautiful, and the cooking is so lovely. She\u2019s doing everything with lots of skill in her own world and on her own terms. It looks very delicious, and I\u2019ve never been to that bit of the world. When I see that, that\u2019s what I want to eat.<\/span>"},{"question":"Especially now that you like coriander leaves, it<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s a tough one if you don<\/span>\u2019<\/span>t.<\/span><\/span><\/strong>","answer":"E<\/span>xactly! I can finally go.<\/span>"}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"image","image_size":"regular","gallery":[150914]},{"acf_fc_layout":"text","text":"

Cynthia Shanmugalingam is featured in<\/em> Apartamento Cookbook #9<\/a>, celebrating <\/i>Sandwiches!\u00a0<\/i><\/em><\/p>"},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":[{"question":"","answer":""}]},{"acf_fc_layout":"interview","interview":null}],"related_text":"","issue":"","button_text":""},"yoast_head":"\nCynthia Shanmugalingam<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Cynthia Shanmugalingam for Apartamento Cookbook #9\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.apartamentomagazine.com\/stories\/a-conversation-with-cynthia-shanmugalingam\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_GB\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Cynthia Shanmugalingam\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Cynthia Shanmugalingam for Apartamento Cookbook #9\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" 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